Re: Motorcyclists = gangsters in Hong Kong?

[4tonmantis]

Considering this is my first real post on these boards, I will take a moment to introduce myself, and this even though it obviously is not the place to do it.
My name is 4TM, I am a finance student, more specifically risk management. I am also a biker, parrot owner and video game junkie. According to my in-laws, I am also a gangster, which conveniently brings me to the subject at hand. I guess this fits into Asia Talk.

To put you guys into context, I've been dating this gorgeous Hongkongese girl for just under a year now and it goes without saying that things have been great. She is a self-proclaimed "banana," which means that she is yellow on the outside and white on the inside. In short, she's so white-washed it's not even funny, but I guess that makes her easily presentable, and if you white guys have ever dated a woman of color before (which is all I have dated to be honest), you know what it's like. Luckily for me, she still has the typical traits of an Asian upbringing: polite, courteous and extremely independent. She also has strong values and traditions. As an example, which also brings me closer to the problem at hand, she would not let me meet her parents until she was totally, and utterly sure it was going to be a serious relationship. And when I did meet her parents, which is only two or three months ago, I had to ask her father's permission to date her. She explained to me it was purely symbolic, but this Saturday it became blatantly obvious to me that it wasn't just that, at least not to him.

Every Saturday night her family meets up at this traditional Cantonese restaurant downtown, which one of the many extended family members conveniently owns. Over dinner my girlfriend had the less-than-brilliant idea of telling her father I had just bought a new bike, which sparked a pretty heated conversation between her and her parents. From the little I understood (because I do know a few words, heck, sentences and expressions in Cantonese), her father wasn't too happy with the fact that I had bought a sport bike and when I told him that I had been riding for almost three years now, he seemed even more distressed. The night ended rather awkwardly not too long after that and her parents took a cab home because we were meeting friends downtown at one of the pubs, and needless to say, we ended up taking a cab home too because the 1$ shooters were too good to pass over and my girlfriend – who doesn't drink – can't drive stick to save her life.

The next morning my girlfriend calls me to let me know she can't see me anymore, at least not for the time being. Her father won't let her. She's explained to me that he doesn't want her daughter dating a "gangster," because apparently the people who drive sport bikes in Hong Kong are all affiliated to the triads or something. Needless to say: utter bullshit. But my question is, is this true? I mean, come on.
I don't know what I should do and while the Internetz isn't a great place to ask for relationship advice, I'm really at a loss here. Things have been rather shitty lately with her, so I don't know.

[ShiftPlusOne]

First of all 'white' isn't a culture, don't generalise. For example, Americans, Australians, Russians, Canadians, Germans, Poles and so on are all 'white' but the cultures are completly different. And listing those traits as of an Asian upbringing is ignorant 'cause I see a lot of Asian girls who are just plain bitches.

Every culture has this 'courteous and polite' image of their females 'cause it's seen as the ideal... as a goal to how society should be. Muslims will say their girls are polite, courteous and respectful, Jews have their "marry a nice Jewish girl" thing, Indians have the same sort of views and so does everyone else. That however does not make it so, human values are universal and bitchiness comes out in all culture despite upbringing and if you take the percentage of 'nice girls' across all cultures I am sure you will find it's very comparable. Culture has nothing to do with it.

Sorry, but it grinds my gears when people equate 'white' to 'western'. I come from a completely different culture and am pidgeon holed into this 'white' stereotype which I have nothing to do with. People just love to have labels and stereotypes for everything.

As for the issue at hand, call her parents reason with them, promise you're not a gangster and if they still have a problem you'll have to choose between her and the bike. You can't make her choose between you and her parents, obviously blood is thicker than water. I think it comes down to whether or not you'd give up your bike and your freedom for her.

It may surprise you to find out that the motorcyclists as gangsters image isn't uniquely asian either. When I got my bike my parents told me over and over not to mix with "the wrong kind of people" and whenever I mention any sort of club they assume I am talking about Hell's Angels or something. Same goes for my gf, if I mention a group ride or something, she reacts the same way as my parents.

[4tonmantis]

I'm deeply sorry about generalizing but I see no inappropriateness in what I have written, nor do I see, in all honesty, the need for this discussion to become one about anthropology. I can reason with you on the fact that I am Ukrainian, and we are not a western people. Perhaps it is ignorant for me to say that being "courteous and polite" are traits of an oriental upbringing, but I am speaking merely from experience, which happens to be more than a fair share of it, and I needn't see the need to precise.

On another note, I will try reasoning with her father, but it must be understood that he speaks very little English and I, very little Chinese. As for choosing between her and the bike, that is a choice I am unwilling to make at my age, for I am nowhere near the point in my life where I should even be thinking about making a commitment. Had we been together longer, perhaps getting rid of the bikes would have been taken into consideration but unfortunately, that's not the case.

It may surprise you to find out that before studying finance, I have studied law, and I am fully aware of what the "biker culture" represents... but I honestly didn't think that her father would think I'm Yakuza or Triad. I own Italian bikes, for god's sake.

[ShiftPlusOne]

I'm deeply sorry about generalizing but I see no inappropriateness in what I have written, nor do I see, in all honesty, the need for this discussion to become one about anthropology. I can reason with you on the fact that I am Ukrainian, and we are not a western people. Perhaps it is ignorant for me to say that being "courteous and polite" are traits of an oriental upbringing, but I am speaking merely from experience, which happens to be more than a fair share of it, and I needn't see the need to precise.

On another note, I will try reasoning with her father, but it must be understood that he speaks very little English and I, very little Chinese. As for choosing between her and the bike, that is a choice I am unwilling to make at my age, for I am nowhere near the point in my life where I should even be thinking about making a commitment. Had we been together longer, perhaps getting rid of the bikes would have been taken into consideration but unfortunately, that's not the case.

It may surprise you to find out that before studying finance, I have studied law, and I am fully aware of what the "biker culture" represents... but I honestly didn't think that her father would think I'm Yakuza or Triad. I own Italian bikes, for god's sake.

Ah ok, I thought you were Chinese, but didn't speak the same dialect. Anyway, my rant was just a rant... I do that sometimes.

That's all you can do really, reason with him or reason with her to reason with him. If that fails, there's not much to do but move on.

[Heartlesspinto]

Wow shift, calm down! Ha ha. I get what you're saying about the generalizing and all, but there's so much intermixing between the different european countries nowadays, everybody has become white. I'm american, so of course i'm insanely mixed and thus simply white.

All you can do is talk to her parents like shift said. I'm sure the uncertainty is because the parents don't know you very well. If they get to know you, they'll realize you aren't a "ganster". I'd only make a big fuss out of it if you are truly in love with this girl though. It'd be bad to go and do all this then break up a few weeks later. I wouldn't give up anything just to please her parents though. There's way too much fun to be had at a young age that you'll have to give up eventually. Live it up while you can.

[ShiftPlusOne]

Ah forgot one thing.

If it doesn't work, plant a bomb in their car, do a ride-by and blast their house up with your uzi. 'cause that's how we roll (apparently).

[DCTim]

Ah forgot one thing.

If it doesn't work, plant a bomb in their car, do a ride-by and blast their house up with your uzi. 'cause that's how we roll (apparently).

OR go and find some triads and put a hit out on her dad! Show him bikers really ARE gangsters and not to f*** with us!

[4tonmantis]

I needn't plant a bomb in their cars; they drive Volkswagens. They'll blow up on their own sooner or later.

[bloodhay]

as purkle would say
plank with a nail in it, problem solved.

[4tonmantis]

I don't think anyone really cares but I'll update this anyways.

Her father has agreed to meet me and her at this shady back alley restaurant in Chinatown, where they cook up these dishes made mainly from organ meat, from what I can remember of the place. Quite frankly, I'm frightened to go. Not only because it's a shady back alley orgran meat cookshop, but also because I'm at a loss as to what to tell him.

[DCTim]

I call your bike if you dont re-appear.





Seriously though. Ask if you can go elsewhere, and ask why he picked that particular restaurant

[4tonmantis]

I think it would be counter-intuitive for him to call me a gangster and then kill me in a shady back alley. More often than not I'm just paranoid about things.

[4tonmantis]

I'm heading over there right now. Hopefully he won't try to kill me or anything...

[Apex]

damn good luck dude. i think it'll be ok. but how old is ur gf... she listens to her parents about not seeing you? anyhow, being chinese and knowing chinese parents. Knowing chinese will help you out a lot in getting on their good side. so ask ur gf to start teaching you, be outrageously respectful to her parents by saying "hi, how are you?" all the time and shaking the father's hand whenever you get the chance. If you ever go to a family gathering, bring something as a present or something, be it some fruit, cake, dessert, etc. and try not to hold ur gf anywhere other than her hands while in their presence.

with the not really being able to converse with her parents, I know wat you mean...i speak cantonese and my gf's parents speak toi san so it's hard to converse with them also. tho they understand what i say...but when they talk...i'm like "huh??" anyhow actions speak much louder than words to parents.

Good luck!

[4tonmantis]

damn good luck dude. i think it'll be ok. but how old is ur gf... she listens to her parents about not seeing you? anyhow, being chinese and knowing chinese parents. Knowing chinese will help you out a lot in getting on their good side. so ask ur gf to start teaching you, be outrageously respectful to her parents by saying "hi, how are you?" all the time and shaking the father's hand whenever you get the chance. If you ever go to a family gathering, bring something as a present or something, be it some fruit, cake, dessert, etc. and try not to hold ur gf anywhere other than her hands while in their presence.

with the not really being able to converse with her parents, I know wat you mean...i speak cantonese and my gf's parents speak toi san so it's hard to converse with them also. tho they understand what i say...but when they talk...i'm like "huh??" anyhow actions speak much louder than words to parents.

Good luck!

She's turning 20 in a few days, and like mentioned earlier blood is thicker than water. And besides her parents pay for her car, her school, all her expenses. They paid for her entire trip when we went to Japan together in December and when we visited her cousin in London last month. They pay for everything... of course she's going to listen to them. "Running away" with me isn't exactly an option.

I know full well how to conduct myself around her family members, I've had quite a few Chinese and Korean girlfriends. I know how traditionalist they can be, and besides I tend to keep my hands to myself in public. I'm not the grabby type.

As for not being able to communicate, it's more-so because we don't speak the same dialect. I can communicate "efficiently" in Mandarin and Min Nan from my time in Taiwan, but they speak Cantonese, and I'll be honest with you, he probably understands everything I'm saying but I don't understand a word. "Or ho to or wa," "pokai" and "nia ma kai chau hai" are the only things I know for certain in Cantonese, and they aren't exactly nice things to say to the in-laws.

Thanks for the tips. I'm heading out now. As far as she's told me, her parents liked me a lot for a white-boy, until she told him about the bikes.