Astral projection, self hypnosis, lucid dreaming.

[ShiftPlusOne]

yeah, but thats not what they are saying their water does, and they dont get them to drink a liter a day or anything like that just a small dosage...

And I do believe Meditation would fall under mental health and in that sense it is not really an alternative medicine at all

ah ok, then that's a bit strange.

meditation was mentioned several times in that youtube clip... it was bunched up with crazy things like it belongs in that category.

I guess we have different ideas of what 'alternative medicine' is. To me, it's pretty much anything that's not drugs.

Are you asking me "how is noetice theory a field of science?". Not sure if the ? is aimed for me or whether your just not sure about the question itself.
Most things start out as a theory or an idea though and as far as i know Noetics is still fairly new.

I do appreciate the explanation on the journals and peer-reviewing, even though i was slightly aware of how it worked i wasn't 100% sure.  

Only medication i use if i need to are headache painkillers, try not to use any.

Yup, that's what I was asking. The term was made up by the institute itself, so calling it a field of science is a bit strange. If I made up the Shifticus Institute of Science and said shifticus is the study of being awesome. I'd then publish papers about my theory of awesome. That wouldn't make shifticus a field of science, now would it? Wikipedia calls noetic theory an "alternative metaphysical philosophy" which sounds about right.

And yeah, I don't take any medication either. Unless I am really really sick, which is only about once a year anyway. I've found that it doesn't really help anyway.

[ShiftPlusOne]

Back on topic though, I had a lucid dream yesterday and I think I would've missed it if it wasn't for a dream sign.

I was in a store and had an inception moment where I though "wait... how did I get here? where was I before I was in the store?" and nothing came to mind, so I thought it was a dream. Then I tried reading text by looking at my digital watch (I don't even own a watch, so that should've been another give away) and the numbers appeared strange.. like backwards Fs or something so I though "oh cool... a lucid dream". So then I had a strange moment where I could feel my body being in bed while at the same time being fully in the dream so it was kind of like observing my own mind from a third mind perspective.

Anyway, it was fun while it lasted.

[Slippy]

Don't mean to sully the topic of this thread and I in no way advocate drug use (trolol) but what do you guys think about DMT? Essentially it's what you're trying to achieve with all this lucid dreaming etc, you're even using the same chemical. DMT is produced in the REM cycle and in the moments before death, which is what causes these crazy other worldly experiences. Apparently it's so mind-blowing you have what's called an ego-death where you can no longer view yourself and the world in such a narrow minded materialistic way after simply because the experience of DMT opens your mind totally and utterly



It's like trying to explain an ocean to someone by showing them a cup of water. Watch this video, this guy will explain it 100x better than me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8

[ShiftPlusOne]

Here's an interesting article by a scientist I follow about LSD.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -knowledge

Do you follow Alex Jones? (I ask this in a non-judgmental way).

Kind of reminds me of a dream I had. In this dream the nature of the universe was revealed to me... it made perfect sense and it was simple and obvious. Then I woke up thinking "omg, i understand the nature of existence, it's crystal clear" then I started thinking about it and it all just faded away. 'course I don't think anything was revealed to me at all and it was just a dream. But the feeling felt very real.

I can see drugs bringing on a similar feeling and I know a few people who believe they are perfectly enlightened or that God spoke to them as a result of drugs or schizophrenia. But if you ask them to explain anything, they can't really. They might go on about one-ness with the universe, reality being an illusion and so on, but they just waffle on about nothing. That's kind of how I felt when I was trying to put my dream into words... the experience was there, but it didn't really teach me anything.

That kind of tells me that they haven't gained any knowledge, just the feeling of having gained knowledge similar to the one I had.

You can find some of these guys on youtube, they all have a profound desire to spread 'the truth' to others.

So yeah, I would consider DMT a recreational, and perhaps harmless drug to experience alternative states of mind, but not something to discover The Truthâ„¢.

[Slippy]

Is Alex Jones the guy that does info wars? He's alright though I think he's a bit too mad 24/7, always has an agenda to push to the point where he won't consider both sides to the spectrum of an argument but I guess he's okay. Ofcourse I don't believe in that mystical hippy eternal spiritual truth stuff but sending your mind into alternate spaces of perception does somewhat throw off mental shackles that a life of being told what to think and feel bind you with. Which is why I assume people do all this Lucid dreaming business, I've never really attempted to do it as I quite often (every two months or so) will get an insanely vivid dream that I remember to the dot, sometimes really epic crazy dreams, sometimes it'll be really stupid like just sitting in a room or walking down a street but I'll be able to remember it for ages. I've never really felt the need to pursue lucid dreaming.

[ShiftPlusOne]

Yeah, Alex Jones is the infowars guy.

[leafsfan9917]

I dont take any type of painkillers (unless its for something real serious, like surgery) my mom and brother allegedly get bad migraines and headaches all the time and always take stuff for it, but regular extra strength Tylenol dosnt work for them any more, they have to get prescription shit and its just a mess.

mabye once every six months I will take a Tylenol if I am really feeling bad and it will literally make me drowsy, also my body actually learns to do its job and fight off infections and stuff if I dont take medication for everything

[ShiftPlusOne]

When I was faking migraines to get exam deferrals, my doctor was talking about how migraines normally have a root cause like stress or unhealthy lifestyle... so there's something to look into.

[leafsfan9917]

I dont think they get it any worse or any more often than anyone else, they just bitch about it more, I have a headache people dont have to know about it, they do than the next door neighbor had to know about it

[ShiftPlusOne]

don't underestimate the pain a migraine can cause

[Trebor]

Yes it seems mostly spiritual and "philosophical" as you said. But they are trying to prove that Mind can affect Matter, what about that isn't scientific? Surely that will involve both spiritual and scientific experiments. Maybe you disagree with me and i could be totally wrong, but i would consider it field of science. It's not all about test tubes and bunsen burners, lol.
The only experiment i've read about so far is the Web Bot Project, which can be found through the link i provided above. Although it isn't the Institute of Noetic Science' website, it's a UK site. Not sure how credible the site is either.

[ShiftPlusOne]

Well I set out to go through a few of the actual articles to 'prove you wrong' but feel like a bit of an idiot for jumping to a conclusion before looking into it properly.

I take back about 80% of what I said about IONS. They do a lot of great work.

However, in the past I've looked into the some of the same topics through mainstream journals and the problem with these sorts of experiments is repeatability. For example, there are many experiments checking if human consciousness can have an effect on random number generators. Some experiments  may show no correlation at all, while others may show a weak correlation.  However there is a considerable amount of studies showing that there is a correlation. The mainstream literature review article I read said that it's likely that studies which don't show any correlation don't get published because there is no original value. How many times can you re-do the same experiment and publish the same non-interesting results. But if someone does the experiments and the results are interesting, then it's more likely to get published. And surely experiments which show that the mind can affect random events are more interesting than the same experiments showing that there is no effect at all. It's just not the same result every time (which is what you want in science).

The actual subject matter of the experiments they conduct is very complicated and linked to quantum physics and the idea that our consciousness works at a quantum level. And if that's the case, things like quantum entanglement may apply to our consciousness and lead to all kinds of crazy things. I know there are a lot of people who strongly believe that, including famous scientists.

It's something I am kind of agnostic about until there's real solid evidence pointing one way or another.

[Trebor]

I wasn't really trying to prove it right but i think because you questioned me i did get abit defensive, which i think is a good but childish thing to get, obviously someone is going to question me over something like that, lol. You probably know more about it than me now then if you've read quite abit. Ah well a little debating (if that's the right term) is always good.
I do think that mind affecting matter is possble but i think it depends on the matter, for some reason in my mind it doesn't seem to crazy or anyhing. I feel the same about most things that alot of people might consider crazy too be honest.

I do want to keep learning more about it but i'm more interested and fascinated by the FreeMasons, Illuminati, Knights Templar, the Hashinins and others. I just need to get alot more books.
I have seen the conspiracy theories out there and while alot of it is crazy, alot of things also seem quite possible. I just really enjoy learning more about them. It's very interesting.
Plus my dad is a Brother in the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes. They seem kind of similar to the FreeMasons but without the reputation, conspiracy theories etc. You can read about them on google. The reason i looked on google for them is my dad can't tell me anything except that they do charities (which they state on there website), and when i spoke to two other people (through a temp job) who had family who were members and they said they were never told anything about it, so obviously my curiosity kicked in. They seem to do some good work though.
This is a wikipedia link but they have their own website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ante ... Buffalloes

[ShiftPlusOne]

Let us know if you uncover anything.

I think you'll find Secret Architecture of Washington DC interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEWN6VT4bw

[Trebor]

Haha, will do, but i won't uncover anything anybody whose researched it already knows. My problem is remembering what i learn, if i could do that better then i would actually know a quite alot of stuff but i have to go over things till it's stuck in there so it takes a little longer for it to become "my knowledge" of something, if that makes sense.

Nice one, haven't seen that doc but i was aware of some of the content. And actually The Lost Symbol is based in D.C as you may know so theres alot info about it in the book.
If you haven't or aren't already, you should check out The Illuminati Project videos, there's about 256 videos, and i love alot the music they have in the background. Part 10 and 11 explains the Three City States... Fuck it here-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCCSHaH5 ... re=related

Was going to make a thread on this a while ago to see what peoples thoughts, opinons were and i thought it would be a good topic (not just the content of this video). So sorry for taking the thread off topic, even though i thought what i originally posted was a little similar to the topic.